Curse

Nine Soul · Dec 02, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

It IS fun, in a masochistic kind of way. I'm actually enjoying this, but it would be better if people didn't leave the first time the group wiped. Not staying to help develop a better build FTL!

Senlur · Dec 02, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

I have to admit, when I went in last night and played around in the DoA my first impression was "Oh my god, this is totally stupid." due to the uber enemies and the hilarious debuffs in each area. Thinking back, though, it's not the difficulty that bothers me (because as many have said, it's all optional). What does bother me is another point that people have brought up: You are _forced_ to do the DoA quests, farm in the DoA or pay the outragious gem prices if you want Razah. Now, if Razah were something amazing... like say a variable profession hero... I could understand it requiring an unbelievable challenge to get him. But as it is... he's a ritualist. Not bad, but not anything amazing or critically useful.
I'm with the others who've suggested that they keep the DoA the way it is in terms of difficulty, but move Razah to a Masters difficulty quest outside of the DoA. He's just not special or useful enough to require going through the DoA or paying the huge prices of gems (which aren't inflated, IMO, since it's so hard to get them).
At this point, I have no intention of getting Razah because I don't feel like driving myself insane trying.

MithranArkanere · Dec 02, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Well I hope that at least they tune down the one hit killing masacres after some time, when they give out another elite area, once the masochists are done with the place so at least 50% of the players can get Razah without paying tribute in 10kk+ectos.

Zehnchu · Dec 02, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I also feel the PvE side has gotten the shaft on Razah. I wouldn’t have a problem if a quest was added him in the Realm of Torment.

Yes DoA should be nerfed, either max party size as stated on page 123 of the NF manual. Or leave party size as is and nerf the unbalanced monster skill “Enraged” and that’s about it.

Permasiel · Dec 02, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

My biggest problem with the place so far is that it's so damn ugly.

Why does every high end pve area in the game has to be so dark that you have no visibility.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Dec 02, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

This area is simply not fun.

And really it doesn't matter if fow or whatever other area is considered to be easier seeing as these have other prerequisites as well, like favor, owning a city not to mention that these are considered to be from another chapter as well.

Is it really that difficult to make these areas fun and entertaining, stop with the bs about calling them elite areas seeing as there is no such thing as elite or skilled just experienced and time invested. Not to mention that if you are really intent on proving your 1337 skills go and do some pvp but leave pve there as a relaxation not some frustrating crap. Factions was the first dissapointment, and i really thought that they had learned their lesson with it, but it really seems like they didn't with the release of this piece of junk. Oh well time to move on to other games and let the 1337 people pay anets bills seeing as they moved completely away from their premise of a fun game for the casual player...

Oh and yes this area is possible, it is just timeintensive, frustrating beyond belief and so build specific that it ain't funny anymore. The days that i have more then 3 hours to spend behind a pc are beyond me, not like you can save your advancement like in other games that are as non casual friendly... Not to mention 3 monks on a group of 8 is redicolous... its already tough enough to find one...

Couldn't they have just implimented an area similar to sf... where you can still go to with henchies and heroes and still do well and get some good stuff out of it... Instead of making us have to 3 man stuff to get some decent drops from bosses or mobs... Or heck make these bosses consistently drop keys which you can then use to open chests that are then conventiently placed in their proximity (which would either drop purple, gold or greens), that way people can actually get stuff by playing the game and actually have fun while getting this stuff instead of not getting any green drops during the entire game. Who cares if their items aren't worth jack if they can quest for it themselves... eeing as for most pve-ers the self acquisition of these items is the point, not the value of it.

Nine Soul · Dec 02, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

What I find funny is that this area would have been a BIT more viable if all those Paragon skills hadn't been shafted. So yeah, PvP side got what they wanted, PvE side can now cry since it's getting a bit hard to actually survive in DoA without some of those skills.

(If you don't get what I mean, think Energizing Finale... overpowered wherever you use it, would MAYBE be just enough in the City part of DoA to effectively spam some skill.)

viper008 · Dec 02, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

Why, it could be worse? You people honestly either we work together or you give up. I’ve seen people doge bullets for god sakes (no not the Matrix); we all know we are smarter then any other computer control A.I. However I will end this with a Matrix quote “there is no spoon.”

No spoon? It's why you got spoon feed as baby so gtfo

seut · Dec 02, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Am i the only one missing endgame content that can be beaten with a decent PUG consisting of friends with different abilities?
I rather enjoy balanced groups in Fissure, Underworld or Sorrow's Furnace than an area unforgiving for mistakes.

Shadowspawn X · Dec 02, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Lots of people feel that the area is too hard, yet I have simpley been PUGing it and each time I learn a little something and make it a little farther. UW was never nerfed and FoW was never nerfed and after three or four months it was well documented and any one who can read could clear it. The hardcore went 1st and distrubed the knowledge to the communitiy where even the most causel player now knows his way to forge and has a spider to be proud of. I say let it stand. Leave Razah where ever the heck he is at, because he is a quest reward, and challange without reward is ultimately unfair.

As a community we will beat this area just like the others, patience and persistance will win the day.

lyra_song · Dec 02, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Lots of people feel that the area is too hard, yet I have simpley been PUGing it and each time I learn a little something and make it a little farther. UW was never nerfed and FoW was never nerfed and after three or four months it was well documented and any one who can read could clear it. The hardcore went 1st and distrubed the knowledge to the communitiy where even the most causel player now knows his way to forge and has a spider to be proud of. I say let it stand. Leave Razah where ever the heck he is at, because he is a quest reward, and challange without reward is ultimately unfair.

As a community we will beat this area just like the others, patience and persistance will win the day.

OMG Marry me. I love you.

HzzB · Dec 02, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

@Feurin Longcastle
...and now we have the Domain of Anguish which actually requires better than average players.

It is not correct. Primary reqirement is SPECIAL BUILDS. I have only my dervish at this area, so no chances to get to any group. No henches here as well.

This update sucks!!!
A-Net should allow henches for the characters which are not welcome to PUG. We still want to get rit hero.

Bloodthirsty Badass · Dec 02, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Anet, don't know if you're monitoring this, but as of 5pm EST on December 2, the Guardian of Whispers in the Chantry of Secrets said:

The area behind these doors is not yet ready for public access.

It's a small thing but, assuming this will be a permanent addition to the game and is not a weekend only thing this should be corrected. And yes, I did go in with a character that had beaten abaddon. I was able to zone in, just saying the dialogue should be changed.

Tried the mission a few times and am looking forward to coming up with something that'll consistently beat those guys. Thank you Anet. Finally a challenging area where we are required to rethink our skill bar.

Everyone saying "ZOMG THISS IS HARD. U SUK ANET" really needs to calm down. We asked for a hard end game area for nightfall and anet has definitely given us one. It is obviously possible, there are screens on this thread to prove it, so stop hating and change your build.

That said, I would like to see the party size increased to 12. It would make the quests much more doable but also, with 8 it is very difficult for low demand professions (assassin, ritualist, dervish) to find a good group as the required members make up too much of the team. I have a monk, ele, warrior, and necro end game, but the sheer volume of dervishes lfg means many people will just give up. Also, in my opinion these quests are more difficult then the Deep or Urgoz's Warren, which are 12.

Eclair · Dec 02, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by HzzB

It is not correct. Primary reqirement is SPECIAL BUILDS. I have only my dervish at this area, so no chances to get to any group. No henches here as well.

This update sucks!!!
A-Net should allow henches for the characters which are not welcome to PUG. We still want to get rit hero.

If you have Factions, I think a invinci-dervish with Shadow form + Extend Enchantments could function far better as a tank than a warrior.

dwc89 · Dec 02, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

well - the city torc'qua part of quest is doable with 1 tank, 2 ele, 1 blood nec, 3 monks(1 bonding) , and a ranger - winter, GC, symbiosis, 2 ints, Lb gaze and mantra of frost(mez secondary).

was fortunate to be in a well organized group as well. Pulling is key here, our war was pulling and did an outstanding job.

also was fortunate to get a "green" spear - Turep's Spear 15^50 zealous hlth + 30

I'm sure there are better builds, but this worked well. The lvl of player in my group was great as well - I consider myself to have been the low man on the totem so to speak and learned a great deal not only about my chars class but other as well.

Anyway - hope ppl enjoy, I now see why Mallyzx the unyielding quest is 4 parts. Each part is like a high end mission.

In time the amount of time spent on this will deminish I'm sure as more ppl gain exp with it.

ign - Huntress Velasca

Zexion · Dec 02, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

Oh and yes this area is possible, it is just timeintensive, frustrating beyond belief and so build specific that it ain't funny anymore. The days that i have more then 3 hours to spend behind a pc are beyond me, not like you can save your advancement like in other games that are as non casual friendly... Not to mention 3 monks on a group of 8 is redicolous... its already tough enough to find one...

Am i the only one missing endgame content that can be beaten with a decent PUG consisting of friends with different abilities?
I rather enjoy balanced groups in Fissure, Underworld or Sorrow's Furnace than an area unforgiving for mistakes.

QFT!

Will you marry me?
The 3 monk thing I don't quite agree on though, as I am used to 3monks backlines from 8v8 HA.

Quote:

Am i the only one missing endgame content that can be beaten with a decent PUG consisting of friends with different abilities?
I rather enjoy balanced groups in Fissure, Underworld or Sorrow's Furnace than an area unforgiving for mistakes.

No you're not!
Tombs was the last endgame area I actually happened to like.
GWN was the best chapter until I experienced master's quests in RoT. Then I just thought "god, has ANet resorted to THIS type of quests for challenge? If I wanted to do something like this, I would play WoW. Difference is, in WoW you can actually get better gear in order to better stand up to the challenge."

Quote:

Lots of people feel that the area is too hard, yet I have simpley been PUGing it and each time I learn a little something and make it a little farther. UW was never nerfed and FoW was never nerfed and after three or four months it was well documented and any one who can read could clear it. The hardcore went 1st and distrubed the knowledge to the communitiy where even the most causel player now knows his way to forge and has a spider to be proud of. I say let it stand. Leave Razah where ever the heck he is at, because he is a quest reward, and challange without reward is ultimately unfair.

As a community we will beat this area just like the others, patience and persistance will win the day.

And I bet when those builds from the "1337" players come out, it will all be cookiecutters, and it is the only concievable way for players who don't play 7 hours per day to beat this area.
This is the difference between this and Tombs, eg. Tombs was challenging. It had strong monsters (though not nearly as overpowered as the DoA ones), required good pulling, and all the jazz.
Yet it could be beaten by a balanced build. It didn't matter what excact classes you went with, as long as thought was put into the individual builds, and the build as a whole. The only classes we really kinda were required to have were some kinda tank, 2 monks of any type, preferably a nuker, and an interrupt range for the Siege Wurms.
Rest were up for grabs for whoever wanted to join.
I assure you, semi-casual player friendliness like this is NEVER gonna be a reality in DoA as it stands.

_Zexion

Tuesg · Dec 02, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by HzzB

It is not correct. Primary reqirement is SPECIAL BUILDS. I have only my dervish at this area, so no chances to get to any group. No henches here as well.

This update sucks!!!
A-Net should allow henches for the characters which are not welcome to PUG. We still want to get rit hero.

I agree, no one wants me as a dervish and when I do get a group its a bad group made up of "reject" classes.

Waldir · Dec 02, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Well finished the city and here is the boss dead, we got a green from one of the bosses im not sure wich one but i didnt get it, everyone got a primeval armor at the death of the lord, i update Sousuke's armor and it looks nice, i posted it on wiki. http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Acolyte..._Armor_Gallery

now on to the rest after a short brake.

Cebe · Dec 02, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvel M

IMO: The way to make this a Win Win situation is..

Allow easy access to RT Hero - I believe a large percentage of people are here just to get RT hero. Casual players are happy. Hence take it out of DOA and move him somewhere else. Someone else stated that the fun of Heroes is training them up and gaming with them while you go thru missions. Having the RT at the very end sort of defeats that. Still everyone wants him just to have as an option.

For the more Hardcore players: Leave the area as is - allow it to be a real challenge. It's a good money sink this way. The Hardcore players get more unique items to sell or use and the standard bragging rights..

Now I play more than the casual player but for me the weapons/armor etc serves me no purpose. I just want my RT hero. The problem I have is that I went thru Nightfall completely with Henchies and Heroes and was surprized that I could no longer use Henchies. Now I'm forced to group. Makes it unappealing for me to go after RT hero. Outside of that - Farming chests are very easy.

Take Care...

To continue the theme... Marry me!!

This is exactly it. Let the casual players who just want to enjoy the game get the hero so they have a nice complete set. If I could just have the hero I could leave that...joke...and get on with playing through the normal game.

Shadis · Dec 02, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWars.com

The way to the Domain of Anguish is now revealed, and players who have completed Nightfall are invited to enter its hidden reaches. Through access in the Chantry of Secrets, you’ll find one outpost, four explorable areas, ten quests, an amazing mission, and many opportunities for exceptional riches. Acquire spectacular weapons for your character and Primeval Armor for your Heroes. Collect special gemstones for many purposes, including unlocking mysterious coffers that contain valuable and oftentimes rare items. Meet the long-awaited Razah, the Ritualist Hero. All of this is yours, in the Domain of Anguish!

I fail to see the word "Elite" anywhere in this description. If any of you people insulting others because they find this area completely missing the fun aspect could point that out, I'd be grateful.

The thing is this... The MISSION is an Elite Mission. The "compromise" that most people are wondering about can be gained by lowering the difficulty of the Explorable Areas just a tad (Mob Density? Special Monster Skills?) and keeping the Elite Mission, which is no doubt probably the hardest PvE challenge they've ever created if you compare it to the mere "explorable areas" the same.

It wouldn't hurt to tone the outlying areas down a notch. I'm not talking about making it a cakewalk, but give non-specialized builds and PuG's a chance.